Wo ist Amerika?

WiA: Daniel, kannst du uns zunächst etwas zu dir selbst erzählen?

Daniel: I am a 26 year old full time worker, full time father, and part time student. I am part of the Utah Coalition of La RaZA, The Utah Legislative Task Force, the Salt Lake County Hispanic Democratic Cauccus, and a Brown Beret of Salt Lake City. I was born in California, however, both of my parents were born in Guatemala. Both of them are citizens of the United States now.

Ich bin 26 Jahre alt, arbeite Vollzeit, bin Vollzeit Vater und Teilzeit Student. Ich bin Mitglied bei der “Utah Coalition of La RaZA“, der “Utah Legislative Task Force”, dem “Salt Lake County Hispanic Democratic Cauccus” und ich bin ein Salt Lake City “Brown Beret“. Ich wurde in Kalifornien geboren, meine beiden Eltern jedoch in Guatemala. Beide haben die amerikanische Staatsbürgerschaft.

WiA: Currently, there is a big debate here in the US about reforming the immigration system. Most people agree that the system is broken. So why is the system broken, and how does the current system compare to, say, the system some 30 years ago?

Daniel: There are many sides on how and why the immigration system is broken. The anti-immigrant groups like the minutemen claim that there are not enough resources to accomodate the growing amount of immigrants moving into the United States. They claim that the system is broken because it allows for them to immigrate undocumented and to more or less ‘break the law’ because they are not documented. On the other hand, I believe that the system is broken in that it takes years, if not a decade or more, for those who try to come here documented, to get any type of papers or citizenship. The system is broken in that they (the government), have not placed any resources in order to try to speed up the process to gain citizenship and have made it almost impossible to attain it legally. 30 years ago it was the same, with the exception that the economies south of the border were not as bad as they are now. The need for migration was not as big as it is now. People migrate to get money to feed their families. I suppose 30 years ago, since the economies were pretty much the same, the problem was not as big. As capitalism has spread across the world, many corrupt governments have taken advantage of this situation to their advantage without noting how much it affects their people.

WiA: So what is the current state of the law-making-process, and where does the president stand (and which role does he play)?

Daniel: Last night (May 15th) we heard the president give a speech outlining where he stood on immigration. He says he is behind a comprehensive legislation that at this point seems somewhat fair. I am not sure about the role the president is currently playing. As you see his ratings in the polls fall, I question how many people support what he has to say nowdays. If he can really convince people that a guest-worker program is just, then we might have the start of a fair bill/law.

WiA: What is the content and state of the Sensenbrenner bill?

Daniel: The Sensenbrenner-bill is currently up for debate still from what I understand. This bill basically criminalizes any undocumented worker and labels them a “Felon“. This means that a child who was brought into the U.S. undocumented by his parents, could possibly be a Felon, without ever commiting any crime. This bill also criminalizes any organizations or groups that provide aid to undocumented immigrants. This would mean that churches or lots of non-profit organizations would be fined and individuals could spend jail time for aiding undocumented immigrants. Giving an undocumented immigrant money for food, water, even a place to sleep could land you in jail.

WiA: And what is the content and state of the McCain-Kennedy proposal?

Daniel: The McCain-Kennedy bill is somewhat of a 180 degree approach to what the Sensenbrenner bill does. It provides a path to earned citizenship for those that have been in this country for a while. It provides a path for those that have stayed out of trouble (with the law) and those that have paid their taxes/dues, to earn their citizenship. They would also have to learn to speak english before they can become citizens. This is different from amnesty in that amnesty would automatically make undocumented people U.S. Citizens. Earned Citizenship is exactly that: there are certain steps that need to be completed before they can attain citizenship.

WiA: The president has roots in Texas, and in his last two campains the issue of reforming the immigration system has played a role. For example, he has been quoted “Family values don’t stop at the Rio Grande”. So for what does the president stand for?

Daniel: Family values is definitely something the president claims he stands for. As per yesterdays speech, I think he has stuck with the idea. Deporting or criminalizing undocumented immigrants would definitely separate families. It would make them fall apart. Here in Salt Lake City, we had a woman who was married to a man for 20 years, they have a teenage child that was born here and raised here. Unfortunately his father tried and tried to gain citizenship, but for some reason or another was denied and deported. This left the mother alone here in the states with their teenage child. The woman almost lost her home and all of her belongings because the father was the breadwinner of the home. This tore that family appart, it almost caused two U.S. citizens (the mother and the child) to become homeless. Thankfully we have some caring people in the community that helped her pay for the home and helped her raise money so it didn’t get to that point. But this job should not be the job of the community itself. It is the job of the government for it’s people! I would hope that Bush really believes in family values and in the importance of keeping a family together because this will change lives if it doesn’t go the right direction.

WiA: Now, if the House bill would be passed, what would be the direct consequences? For example, who would become a ‘criminal’ from one day to the next?

Daniel: Any Undocumented Immigrant and anyone who has ever aided an undocumented Immigrant would become a criminal. This might not mean they will come knocking at your door immediately, however you will become a target for any type of people. Definitely a lot of profiling would be done, since it’s almost impossible to distinguish a documented citizen from an undocumented citizen. A lot of profiling and stereotypes would have to be played and that would definitely be one of the consequences.

WiA: And who is affected? Only the low-paid work-force, or also higher educated Immigrants?

Daniel: The affected are everyone really. From the workers you see everyday at your local grocery stores, to the builders of your very own cities. These could be your neighbors, family, co-workers, church leaders, etc. And these are the ones directly affected. On a larger scale, any consumer would be affected by higher prices in everything from food to services, to houses, etc..

WiA: Would it make it harder for immigrants to come to the US in order, for example, to study here?

Daniel: Education should be something that should never be denied to any individual. The world has only to benefit from educated people. It would possibly make it harder. However, currently I do not know that answer. Education is not a privilege, it’s a right.

WiA: What would be the ‘punishments’? Being sent home?

Daniel: Punishments for being here undocumented be jail time, fines, and they would be unable to return to the United states.

WiA: As far as I perceived it via the media, there is a huge consenus if it comes to tightening the border. I was born in Berlin (in the former west part), and I used to play right beside the Berlin wall, close to a US military area. In other words, I rember how tight borders are looking like. Of course, the US has to protect itself against terrorists. However, a rather strange outgrow are the so-called minutemen. What are these for a kind of people, and what are they doing?

Daniel: I think the threat of terrorism is very real. It is something we have to worry about these days. One thing people have to remember, however, is that none of the terrorists entered the U.S. here undocumented. None of the terrorists that attacked us on 9/11 came through the southern border, and none of the terrorist that were here, were from south of the border. People want to make the link of terrorist to latinos, or immigrants. However, terrorists destroy, immigrants build!

Regarding the minutemen: They are a group of vigilantes that are trying to take the law into their own hands. They see the lack of support from the U.S. government in trying to secure the border, so they take it upon themselves to be armed and secure the border. While I agree with the minutemen that have honest and humble concerns for the country, I disagree with the racist alliances that have been forming and hiding their racist agendas behind the flag of the U.S. and behind the name of the minutemen. I know they claim that they are not racist. However, some of the leaders have been caught saying some “anti-mexican”, i.e. not even “anti-immigrant” comments, as well as there has been some of them that are self-described white supremacists holding minutemen signs. I believe there is a distinction between the ones that are truly concerned for this country, and the racist ones that are just against people of color. However, drawing where that distinction is, is unclear.

WiA: If it comes to the issue of assuring low-paid labor and how to deal with the immigrants already in the US (amnesty or not?), there is currently no agreement. So what actually are the proposals, and which solution do you favour?

Daniel: Actually the proposal I favor is the McCain-Kennedy proposal in which individuals can earn their citizenship given that they meet a certain criteria. I think that this approach is very humane and fair to those that have paid more than their dues to this country. It is very fair to the student who has grown up in the U.S. not even knowing that his/her status was undocumented. I believe this is a step in the right direction and one that does not dehumanize undocumented immigrants. Also, as far as low-wage labor, we need to be fair about what we pay people. When you have two parents working two jobs each to support their family, we are not being fair about the wages. If it means increasing minimum wage, I say go for it, I know the consequences: Increasing low-wages don’t just affect undocumented immigrants, it affects our own U.S. born citizens.

WiA: There also seems to be quite some solidarity from the unions? Can you explain to me the relation of the current immigrant movement with the unions? In which respects is the current immigrant debate also a civil rights debate?

Daniel: To a lot of us, this issue is not about a status of being documented or undocumented, it’s a humane issue that has a face and body. It is an issue that has not only brought solidarity between imigrants and the unions, however it has brought unity amongst people of all colors, including african-americans. Jesse Jackson put out an article in which he stated “Si Se Puede”. This is Spanish for “We Shall Overcome”. The movements of the 60′s were about human rights, not citizen rights, and today, we are also marching for the same rights, as human beings. There is no human that is ‘illegal’. The unions are in solidarity with the cause, again, not because it’s a documented/undocumented issue, rather a human issue, much like the reason the unions are formed, not to mention most laborers are immigrants themselves.

WiA: Can you give me some stats? What are the facts showing that the particular reform of the immigration laws you are standing for are better than the ones currently suggested? In other words, let us forget the whole ‘American identity and values’-thing: In which ways would the reform you are thinking of pay off (and for whom)?

Daniel: There are a lot of myths about the economic impact of immigrants. For example, there are myths stating that Immigrants don’t pay taxes. However, studies find that between $90 and $140 billion a year in federal, state and local taxes are paid by immigrants. Undocumented immigrants pay taxes as well, and this is very noticeable by the Social Security’s “secret stash” called the “Suspense file“. Basically this suspense file consists of taxes that have been paid to the government that cannot be matched to workers’ names and social security numbers. The estimate as of 2005 was somewhere in the range of $519 Billion dollars.

WiA: How many (illegial) immigrants are currently working in the US?

Daniel: According to some statistics I have read, there are about 6 million undocumented workers here in the United states out of the 9.3 that are here undocumented. The 3.3 million that do not work consist of elderly, children, and mothers that may stay home caring for their children.

WiA: What type of work do they do?

Daniel: Out of all the undocumented workers, virtually all men are in the labor-force (about 96%). Women are less likely to be in the labor force (about 62%). One of the reasons for this that I have read are that they are of childbearing age and that undocumented women are more likely to stay at home to raise their children than U.S. citizens. I am not sure how much of this is true, since I have met a lot of families where both parents are constantly working just to maintain a living due to their low wages.

WiA: To what extend does the US economy depend on them?

Daniel: According to Alan Greenspan, about 70% of immigrants arrive in prime working age. That means that we haven’t spent any money on their education, yet they will contribute about $500 billion toward our social security system within the next decade or two. This is not to mention some of the companies in silicon vally, which were begun by chinese and indian immigrants and that contribute more than $19.5 billion in sales and nearly 73,000 jobs in the year 2000 alone. What do we have to lose? Lots.

WiA: Do immigrants take away jobs americans could do?

Daniel: Immigrants do not take jobs americans could do. The truth is that the largest wave of immigration to the U.S. since the early 1900′s coincided with our lowest national unemployment rate and fastest economic growth. I am quoting a source when I say this, but “Immigrant entreprenours create jobs for U.S. and foreign workers and foreign-born students allow many U.S. graduate programs to keep their doors open. One other thing I thought was funny, and I think it was Kennedy who said this. He offered $50 an hour to anyone that wanted to go pick fruit/vegetables in the hot sun like some of the immigrants. No one stepped up to the plate. So are immigrants really taking away jobs from the documented or U.S. citizens? I would have to say no.

WiA: Who benefits directly from the low-paid work? Who gets richer, who gets poorer? By the way: Did the sales for low-paid work increased over the years?

Daniel: We all have to benefit from the low-paid work. It is said that in Mexico, the immigrants that are making the low wage 5.+ an hour here, would be making 6 or so dollars a week in Mexico. It is also a fact that many of our homes that are build, our roads, buildings, structures, our food, etc. have all been through the hands of an undocumented worker that has made it possible for the cost of all that we pay for to be very low.

WiA: Let us come to the ‘American values’: What are the ‘values’ you think are attractive here, and which can’t not be found elsewhere (or not to that extend)? Why is it worth to live in the U.S. or even be an American?

Daniel: The american dream is not just an american dream. It is a dream that any human shares. The dream of owning a home and providing for their family does not end when you cross the southern border. There are many opportunities for people to flourish here in the United States. There are opportunities for people to leave their country in search for this dream to become reality, here in the united states. It will take decades of restructuring the Latin American countries for them to be able to flourish successfully like the U.S. has. Unfortunately for someone with a dream and a family, decades is too long… If you knew the grass was greener on the other side, and that you would be able to provide for your family given you crossed an imaginary border: Why would you not do it? These people come to work, not to drain, and in this country, there are more than enough opportunities for them to work.

WiA: How do you i) predict and ii) hope the immigration debate and the immigration reform will evolve in the next, say, few months?

Daniel: I hope that there will be a path to legal citizenship for the millions of undocumented immigrants that are here. I hope that the McCain-Kennedy bill opens the doors to new opportunities and lets the people that have lived in shadows for many years finally come out of the dark. I hope that those opposing the path to earned citizenship will see it in their hearts that this is not an issue that affects “Illegals” as many put it, but rather an issue that affects human beings, of all ages, genders, colors, etc. I hope people stop dehumanizing these brothers and sisters of ours, and that they can too, see the face and the body and the working hands behind the undocumented immigrants. I predict there will be a just and humane conclusion to this whole argument.

WiA: Let us keep fingers crossed. Many thanks for this interview.